Saturday, January 22, 2011

Third date with the entrepreneur: Wherein I experience the BIGGEST LEFT TURN OF A DATE EVER (and yet, somehow, it still turned out OK)

Honestly, I went into last week thinking a third date with the entrepreneur wasn't ever going to materialize. We'd gone out on a Wednesday night and had a great time, but while we'd exchanged a few text messages the following day, I hadn't really heard from him since. By the time this past Tuesday rolled around, I figured it had been nearly a week, and if he were going to call he'd have called by then. Moreover, I had a bunch of people comment skeptically on the last entry about his intentions, and the whole thing just had me really discouraged.

I was totally mopey as I drove myself and the Non-Student to my January happy hour at Top of the Hill. But as we exited my car and walked toward the bar, I checked my phone:

"Hey, hotness... Figured I'd try to get you out past 10 p.m. Want to come out and play Friday night?"

REJOICE!!! REJOICE!!! REJOICE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

The Non-Student joined me in jumping up and down excitedly and dancing around to a chant of "HATERS GONNA HATE! HATERS GONNA HATE!" as well as our patented rendition of Cee-Lo Green's "F**k You." (Anyone who has hung out with the two of us together has seen us split a bottle of wine then serenade each other with that foul-mouthed anthem. It's AWESOME.)

We bounded into my happy hour -- which was a TOTAL success, with a great turnout even in the face of a D.C. ice storm, thus proving yet again that my blog readers are just as big of lushes as I am -- and had a spectacular time!

I was increasingly giddy as the week wore on. I couldn't wait to get to Friday and see what the entrepreneur had in store for me...

... because like our second date, he didn't tell me beforehand what we were going to do. He merely gave me a time to be ready to be picked up and a suggestion of appropriate clothes to wear (this time, I went a funkier route with a short black dress, tall black boots and hot pink patterned tights -- I know it sounds weird but it looks cool!).

The entrepreneur was running late, so I uncorked a bottle of Sauvignon Blanc and had a glass while I waited.

Finally, he arrived.

"So, I called a cab," he began to lay out the plans for the evening, "and we're going to 8th Street Southeast -- do you know it?"

"Oh, Barracks Row," I said as we walked toward the street. "Yeah, that's a fun little area."

It turned out that the entrepreneur had in mind drinks and dinner at Cava, a Mediterranean mezze joint. I'd never been there before, and I keep telling the entrepreneur how I like to experiment and try new places and cuisines, so it was a perfect destination. It's dark and romantic in there, and we sidled up to the bar for drinks while we waited for a table for dinner.

The entrepreneur and I started talking about our weeks -- he does this thing where he says "Let's play High-Low" and then asks what were the highlights and lowlights of your week. We went back and forth on that, as well as discussing a few things about how to make this blog better (if anyone out there knows anything about negotiating trademarks, let me know).

Additionally, he informed me that the delay in between our second date and his text to ask me for a third was because he'd programmed my number in his phone wrong and had been texting someone who is decidedly not me all weekend. So, that was good to know.

It was crowded in there, and only I was able to get a bar stool. The entrepreneur stood beside me, with his arm around me on the back of my chair.

So, I'd pre-gamed the date, and at this point it was about 9:30 p.m. I'd been drinking on an empty stomach for nearly two hours. I was pretty tipsy, and I wrapped my arm around his waist and pulled him closer to me.

At his back, tucked in to his pants and beneath his coat, there was a bunch of... paper? Of some sort? I wasn't sure what it was that I was feeling back there.

"I suppose you're wondering what that is," the entrepreneur said to me, reaching underneath his coat for the object.

Now, I assume you read the title of this particular blog entry. Up until this point, everything is normal, romantic, lovely. He's gotten us a cab, taken us to a nice restaurant, bought me a mango margarita and charmed me yet again with his debonair wit. And then he pulled out a large white envelope and handed it to me.

"Here, open this," he said. "This is where we're going tonight."

Readers, prepare yourself for that abrupt LEFT TURN: When I opened the envelope, I discovered it was the press materials for The Crucible, aka Washington, D.C.'s BDSM nightclub.

"Are you fucking serious?" I asked incredulously as I pored over the materials. "You're serious; you really want to go here."

The entrepreneur was indeed serious. Talk about taking me to places I've never been before -- he pulled out all the stops when it came to suggesting this. ON A THIRD DATE.

"Let's just go check it out," he pressed.

Then, my curiosity and extreme desire to be open-minded/ Sex Positive and accepting of all lifestyles got the best of me. And I'm young, and I lived in San Francisco for a while and went to the Folsom Street Fair when I was there and that was awkward but I lived, and when else am I ever going to go see anything like this?

I turned to him: "You know what? Fuck it. Let's go."

We had a quick talk about how we would not be joining any swinging couples in their activities and how if I told him I was uncomfortable, we would leave immediately. Then, our buzzer went off alerting us that our table was now ready for dinner.

"How on earth could you have a normal dinner conversation with him after the swingers' club stuff?!?!?!" Megan K. later asked when I was relating the tale of my date to her Saturday afternoon.

I'm not sure how, but we managed. We had a wonderfully interesting conversation over dinner (Side note: If you ever go to Cava, get their lamb sliders -- they were delicious!), wherein he gave me one of the best compliments I've ever gotten: "You're smart and articulate, and that's sexy as hell."

Oh yeah, I liked that one.

Beyond that, he's really easy to talk to! And in fact, one of the things we talked about is our overall expectations for a relationship and what we're looking for. At the table next to ours, a visibly unhappy couple was out for what was clearly a relationship-salvaging Date Night; they ate silently through most of their meal and at the end the only question exchanged was, "So what do you want to eat tomorrow?"

As soon as they left, the entrepreneur turned to me. "See that?" he said. "THAT is what I don't want."

I wholeheartedly agree.

We finished up our meal and joked around with our server, telling him what our plans were for the rest of the night. For what it's worth, he supported the idea, saying it was risky but would be something exciting and completely atypical. The entrepreneur and I grabbed a cab, and gave our driver the coordinates for the swingers' club.

Just in case you want to go there.
Even though I was trying to be open-minded, my brain was totally freaking out. Not only was I worried about what I would find when we got there, I was thinking, WTF are we doing on our third date!?!?!? This is SO not normal behavior!!!

The Crucible is in an industrial park, right next door to a venue I believe is a gay strip club. So basically, mad shady. We walked in the door, paid the cover and went inside.

So what does the inside of a BDSM club look like, you might be wondering? Well, I'll tell you: IT IS EXCEEDINGLY AWKWARD. "Awkward high school prom" is how I keep describing it, actually. The main room was a big dance floor with the requisite flashing disco lights, and there were card tables set up all around the room with decorative confetti on them.

IMPORTANT NOTE: The Crucible does NOT serve alcohol. Or at least, it didn't on Friday night. And frankly, I could have used a GIGANTIC drink because of all the other people in that place.

What is wrong with the patrons of a BDSM club, you might be wondering next? Well, I'll show you. It's a point I've illustrated with some helpful charts.

For starters, let me say this. I often get questions about my overall appearance. And frankly, I think on a scale of Quasimodo to Christina Hendricks, I'm a fairly average-looking gal:

On a standard bell curve, my looks are at the precise middle. Nobody's crossing the street to avoid me, by any means, but nobody's crossing the street to get my phone number either.

HOWEVER -- in a BDSM club, the bell curve is DECIDEDLY DIFFERENT:

Remember how I said it was an "awkward high school prom"? That's because all of the people in there looked like the CHAPERONES. Seriously, they were all in their 40s or 50s, fat and ugly. The entrepreneur and I were BY FAR the best-looking people in there. And we definitely got noticed by the herds, which made me INCREASINGLY uncomfortable!

We decided to look around a little bit more, and that led us to go upstairs to check out the second floor. If the downstairs was prom, the upstairs was a bordello. There were little areas of pillows everywhere, and there was a back hall with beds out in the open as well as a private room for people to go get it on. But apparently, in The Crucible, the word "private" is totally up for debate -- there was NO DOOR on this room, and inside there was a couple just blatantly having sex!

OMFG!!! I was in a state of shock. Again, I was trying to be open-minded, but it was extraordinarily hard to do!

The entrepreneur and I walked away from the hallway -- I just couldn't handle it -- and toward a little couch/pillow area. We took a "when in Rome" attitude at that point and made out for about 20 minutes. But when people started milling about way too close to us -- pretty sure they were trying to approach us for some group action -- I whispered in his ear, "You wanna get out of here?"

Thankfully, he was just as uncomfortable and ready to leave as I was.

We hurried back downstairs, where things had gone from awkward to just plain sad -- in the interim, they'd put out a spread of cookies, chips and dip, and various other finger foods, which made it feel even more like a terrible high school social event -- and slipped out the door.

Fortunately, we were able to catch a cab immediately, and we laughed the whole way back to my apartment about how horrifying the whole experience had been.

He came inside to keep talking and to finish off the bottle of wine I'd opened earlier in the evening. And we laughed some more, and kissed...

And with that, "expectation management" got chucked out the window. It was such a weird date, but somehow I feel like we bonded over the experience (and thank God he's not actually into that lifestyle, because I couldn't do it -- literally).

I really like this one, y'all.


  1. That is HILARIOUS! You really had me laughing. And I guess they don't serve drinks because they don't have a liquor license? I'm with you on that one though - I would have needed a HUGE drink. I can't believe he took you there. But really fun that he did. And you got a great blog post out of it.

    He sounds like a keeper! I'm happy for you.

    And thanks for your comment on my blog the other day. Follow up post coming tomorrow. And thanks for introducing me the A Pre-Life Crisis' blog.

  2. There used to be a club like that in SF (called Power Exchange), but it shut down. I've never been, but from what I heard, your chart of attractiveness stands true for that place too.

  3. Wow. just wow. I am sooooooooooo glad that you went through this experience. So I never have to. And if my boyfriend (aka Mr. Unicorn) ever wants to do this I am going to make him read this post and hope he gets that No, means no. No, honey we are NOT fucking doing THAT. Once again you have outdone yourself on your brilliant charts. I heart your charts. And I can't wait to read more. So happy for you. Hoping all good things. Cheers, T.

  4. "he informed me that the delay in between our second date and his text to ask me for a third was because he'd programmed my number in his phone wrong and had been texting someone who is decidedly not me all weekend."

    My Q: so why do you accept and believe such unmitigated BS? This is especially true when one para above you revealed he had texted you successfully the day after your 2nd date. Good lord.

  5. Oh wow! As I was reading the beginning I thought the sketchy part began with him programming your number wrong...really? But as I continued to read I realized that was nothing compared to that club. Kudos to you for going through with it!

    :) I'm sure that's definitely a date to remember! He sounds really sweet. I hope it keeps going well! (Definite bonus points with that compliment) :) excited to read about more dates with him.

  6. Am I the only one to notice that you "bonded"?

    Glad it went well...

  7. I'm sorry that you ended up at the Crucible on an off night -- sounds like NYC's Paddles, which is ridiculed by those of us in the scene as being a "BDSM tourist trap." Hot players don't just drop into public clubs on a random Friday night; in NYC, we avoid Paddles like the plague unless there is a specific party being thrown there, because of all the reasons you wrote about in your hilarious post.

    It was pretty funny to read your vanilla perspective on something we joke about all the time. But trust me, I have loads of hot friends in the BDSM scene (and I'm a pretty fine lookin' lady myself) and we wouldn't be caught dead in a public club on a random night.

    (Also, the Crucible probably doesn't serve alcohol not because it's a lame high school dance but because of the issues with intoxication and consent; if you're going to be playing with things like whips, floggers, ropes, and suspension rigs, you really don't want to have your judgment clouded in any way or lose the ability to accurate gauge your pain tolerance.)

    But your post was super funny and kudos to the Entrepreneur for taking you on an adventure.

  8. So glad I was there for the text and subsequent rejoicing with Ceelo! And so glad I gotto join you for brunch and hear all about your adventures which would totally freak the bejeesus out of me.

    Another rule we've learned is "haters gonna hate." Just glad you're enjoying yourself and having fun.

  9. Feel that I need to address the texting issue: Yes, I wrote that he had "texted" me in the past, but I should clarify that I took a bit of poetic license with that. Up until Tuesday, our primary mode of communication had actually been Twitter Direct Messages, which I have come to my phone so they're like text messages to me. To be perfectly accurate, I should have written that he "DMed" me, but more people are familiar with texting as a mode of communication and it's quicker and easier to type, so that's what got published. My bad.

    As for whether or not I believe him? Eh, jury's out, but it's early in our relationship and I believe in giving people the benefit of the doubt.

    And to The Writer: Yes, an adventure! I'm glad you see it that way, because that is the way I felt about it the whole time. He didn't have to twist my arm to go there, and the moment I said I wanted to leave we did. There was never a time where I felt like he was pressuring me unnecessarily to do anything.

    So, there's my further two cents, for what it's worth!

  10. To be perfectly accurate, I should have written that he "DMed" me, but more people are familiar with texting as a mode of communication and it's quicker and easier to type, so that's what got published. My bad.

    I still call bullshit. If he had been "texting someone all weekend" and never got a response then why didn't he call you earlier to see what was up? How come it took him 4 days to figure that out? You'd think if he hadn't received any response to all those texts he was sending all weekend, he'd have checked sooner to see he had the right number.

    I'm honestly not trying to pee in your oatmeal. I'm really not. But everything about this guy screams player. You really like this guy, and guys like this have a tendency to do a lot of damage.

  11. Andthatswhyyouresingle--I guess it's safe to assume if he was texting the wrong number, he'd be calling the wrong the number too...since they're the same number.

  12. I'm not sure what happened to my first comment, whether it's being moderated or what. So forgive if write a duplicate comment.

    The BDSM club thing is a huge red flag. This guy is telling you who he is and what he's looking for. Listen.

    You don't take someone to a BDSM club as a surprise, let alone on a 3rd date before you've even had sex. Maybe there's stuff you've left out, conversations you and this guy have had about sex, but that's a pretty huge risk for a guy to assume the girl he's taking out won't be offended by a trip to a Swinger's Club.

    He was either trying to gauge your reaction because he has some not so vanilla proclivities, or he was just hoping to get laid. These are not the actions of someone looking for a substantive relationship. These are the actions and dialogue of a guy just looking for casual sex.

    If you can handle something casual, by all means enjoy. But you keep saying how much you like this guy. This guy is not relationship material.

  13. Non-Student:

    No, because it would stand to reason that he'd check whatever source from which he got her number originally to make sure he had it right, then call her. Say if she DMd it to him.

  14. I don't technically know you-- I've only been reading for about 1.5 months now and haven't made it to one of your happy hours yet (though they certainly sound like fun!) But I'm 26 and have read enough of your blog entries to feel like I get what you're looking for, and I worry that this guy has several red flags. Honestly, if you were a close friend of mine, I'd tell you to proceed with caution, if you must proceed. Remember your friend's mantra about "he's not that special," etc. I get that real life is not some rom com and initial dates/interactions don't have to be meet cutes or the essence of perfection. But imagine if your sister or a female cousin or even just a good friend were to tell you this story-- how would you react? Please be careful!

  15. Please be careful. This date screams red flag. He's either got an arguably odd sense of humor/adventure, is an adrenaline junkie, or is a bit of a creeper.

    You can do better.

  16. I hesitate writing anything, because I feel like it's going to be defended by Non Student. (I know you're just looking out for your girl, but you should also be interested in other peoples' perspectives, because they may ALSO be looking out for your girl. You're obviously a kick-ass friend, but hear people out....) I've also popped back on this blog about 10 times today to see what people were commenting because I wanted to be sure I wasn't the only skeptic. (And may I remind you, I was not one of the skeptics before! I was rooting for this guy!!!! And Steph T. said I have good instincts!)

    I'm with the people who are calling BS on the lack of contact thing. If I was texting someone and wasn't getting any response, I would definitely call them to find out why. Yes, it would still be the wrong number, but at least you would hear an outgoing voicemail message that didn't match the name/voice/gender of the person you were trying to reach.

    As for the club scene, I'm torn. I love love love a good adventure, and what an incredible thing to bond over, but I question the motives of any man who, essentially, chooses to watch (or expose his date to) other people having sex out in the open. Would you have felt it was an adventure to watch porn on date three? Go to a strip club together on date three? Just because that type of club can be "interesting" doesn't make it a novelty enough to avoid realizing what he is asking you to be exposed to. Look, I don't care what people are into, but unless you met on some sort of Web site dedicated to these kinds of adventures, I think date three is too early for exploring novelties like this, no matter how curious you are.

    At the end of the day, it sounds like you're having a great time with this guy. And as long as that remains your intention, enjoy it. But if you have genuine feelings for this guy, and would like to (eventually) see it through to the next step, I'd keep a healthy guard up. I would love love love if this guy was a fantastic guy with just a little hint of naughty, but I think you have enough here (both through experience and readers' observations) to remain cautious.

    I am keeping all fingers and toes crossed for you, because I can tell how absolutely excited you are for this guy. And as a faithful reader, it's really nice to "see" you so happy. :-)

  17. @Kirsten, it's more that I choose not to voice my concerns on the blog. I'm fortunate enough to know Katie IRL, and we talk about this stuff in person. Franly(and she'd tell you this, too) when she told me about the date, the first thing I said (once I picked my jaw off the floor) was, "If that'd been me, I would've been out."

  18. @Non Student - I have no doubt you voiced your concerns to your friend (what friend wouldn't?! Good lord this was an interesting post!), but I have seen a pattern lately of you arguing with people over their comments. Again, there is no doubt you're a great friend, but I feel as though you make it your personal responsibility to protect Katie/argue with people on this blog. My point was only that I have hesitated /continue to hesitate commenting sometimes for fear that it will spark a completely unrelated argument. You're so against "the haters," when I imagine we all truly cherish this blog, and want nothing more than to see your friend happy. Unfortunately, some of us think that a dude who doesn't contact her for a week and then blames it on a programming issue might not be the one! But alas, I keep everything crossed for her!

  19. So what kind of twisted freak takes a girl to a BSDM sex club on date 3?

    Run. Don't walk.

  20. @Kirsten, please show me where I have done that lately other than the one comment I made here. If you go read the other two posts on this guy, you'll see comments were words of encouragement to Katie. Lately I've been spending less time on the blogosphere and I usually only read the posts once, rarely coming back to read what others have said.

    Believe me, the "haters" are not people like you who express genuine concern, but people who troll the site to say truly hateful things whose comments never get published here. So, don't be so sure everyone cherishes the blog like you and I do. Some people just want to be jerks.

  21. If the goal is to not have haters, then the last thing a blogger should do is make it a point to call them out in their posts. I see this all the time on blogs now, and on Twitter, and really it just makes me roll my eyes. I have no doubt that some people say mean, hurtful things. It sucks, but it's part of blogging. But I haven't seen any "hate" around these parts. I've seen some people disagreeing with Katie or not express blind support. That's not "hate." That's disagreement. Not so oddly enough, it's the non-bloggers who give critques. Other bloggers are going to express support because they want the same in kind. Which makes for a dreadfully boring blogosphere. This is one of the few blogs where there's actual discourse. That's what a blogger wants. If you keep referring to the haters, or go on twitter and complain about a negative comment, nobody is going to say anything at all. Then you're left with a blog where all the comments are from other dating bloggers popping a squat so they can get a link back to their blog. I've seen those blogs, and they're a circle jerk-filled bore.

  22. One note before I go to bed: Y'all, I haven't had any illusions about this particular guy from Day 1.

    From the first entry on him: "Though, one caveat: He was fun and exciting and awesome, but the entrepreneur strikes me as one of those forever-bachelor types. Which is totally within his rights to be -- it just means I have to work on managing my expectations and not getting carried away."

    From the second entry: "I mentioned this after our first date, but the entrepreneur just has "Perma-Bachelor" written on his forehead. He's too energetic, too exciting, too fun. The kind of guy that doesn't have to settle down, so why would he?"

    I get it -- he's not in it for the long haul.

    But let me just say this: Does anyone remember the pastry chef?

    If you don't, here's the link:

    The pastry chef met me on, so he wasn't a "fame whore." He was in contact every day from our first date, and was clearly very into me. He met several of my friends, was there for me the night a friend of mine died, and told me that HIS friends were excited about me, too. He told me that he wasn't into one-night stands, and that if he were going to be with a girl, it was going to mean something.

    Then, all of a sudden, I got a text from him: "Sorry, I guess I have my own issues to work out."

    And he was gone.

    The pastry chef was one of two guys I've cried over since starting this blog. The other was John, and clearly he was an asshole from the first moment we met. But the pastry chef -- everything he did seemed right.

    So here's my point: We all know to be wary of snakes. But puppies can leave vicious bite marks, too.

  23. OK, I want the men folk to weigh in. @RealComptrollerAtkins, @k-Dawg, @NYDude -- What do Y'ALL think?

  24. Katie, you are indeed the master of your fate and the captain of your soul, and no one but you can tell you what you should or shouldn't do or feel.

    I do agree with Kirsten and ThatsWhy though that the Entrepreneur has shown his hand, and your inclination to go along with this "left turn" on Date #3 and then stay at least for a bit plays to his proclivities. If he wasn't seeking voyeuristic/exhibitionist sex that night, he was clearly gauging your permissiveness for such activities in the near future.

    The red flags are there and the BS detector is needling up into the red with the txt story etc. Perhaps make yourself not so available and hard to get for a spell to see what mettle he is really made of and if he is into this and truly interested in you for only the right reasons.


  25. I probably should mention in regard to this date that the Crucible has several different client groups. There are the BDSM people (into several flavors which we needn't go into). There are also the swingers.
    Your date took you there for a swingers night. One would expect upon entering a group of this type that one would be eyed.
    The BDSM crowds are much more social and you'd have seen people with floggers and rope and the like on one of those night.
    I haven't read past entries about your dates, but I question the judgment of someone who takes a date with whom they haven't sexual to such a venue.
    If you had already gotten sexual, I'd still question the timing.

  26. @Steph T.: I think everyone's pretty much saying the same thing regardless of sex.

    Also, NY Dude doesn't comment anymore!!! Sad face.

  27. I think it sounds like it was a really fun date - but I do agree with others that you should proceed with caution. Surprise dates are fun - when they are new restaurants, bars, etc. However, he decided to take you to a BDSM club

    A. On your 3rd date
    B. Without finding out your views on such things
    C. After you already were out with him

    Did you text any of your friends where you were going? I know you can take care of yourself, but he took you to a dodgy part of town where IF things turned sour you might have had a hard time getting out of there. That concerns me.

    I'm really glad you had fun and I am SO up for those types of adventures - but I ONLY have them with people I know and trust WELL - because I have been on the other side of the situation. ( I won't post details here - but I will share them with you privately.)

    So to steal a comment above, I am not trying to pee in your oatmeal (love it!) but I just want you to be careful is all. He totally might be just an adventurous and spur of the moment kind of guy - but he also seems to let that transcend boundaries and respect.

    I'm curious to how your night would have gone if you told him flat out you were not going to that club.

    Be careful!

  28. @Autumn: For the record, I just asked him what we would have done had I refused.

    His response: "That's another Top Secret. You shoulda seen the OTHER envelope I had with me!!!"

    ^--- this is why I enjoy his company, cuz dude, that shit's hilarious.

  29. *face/palm*

    He's lying. There was no other envelope.

  30. Wow! Seriously, that's a great story, if nothing else. I can see both sides of the comments here and can agree with each - yay for an awesome adventure and certainly a non-boring date; at the same time, sure maybe some red flags. BUT I think you've made it clear you're already being very thoughtful and careful.

    But hey, what about this? Sure, maybe this guy is a perma-bachelor. And maybe even a little part of him could be trying to come up with the most outrageous date ever in order to go down in DateMeDCBlog history. And all of that probably means he has bigger/stronger walls up than most men when it comes to really letting someone in and building a relationship. So for what it's worth, girl - I'm rooting for you to be the one who breaks them down, because you really do seem to like this one. Everyone's relationship is their own, and "normal" is just fucking boring. And I think you're probably on the right track by rolling with his punches and showing him that you don't scare easily. :) Glad you're going with your gut!

  31. I haven't said anything about this guy yet because I've been sitting back to see how things will unfold. Its great how much fun you seem to be having...he makes you smile, feel special and keeps you on your toes...all positives. Its good you're keeping a guard up and keeping it chill until you get a better read for him. Protect yourself first, always!

    I will say the # thing seems a tad strange. How did he ever figure out the right one? I didn't notice if you told us that?

    I give you soo much credit for being so openminded and easygoing about this club! And then even having the guts to sit and make out for 20min!! Damn girl! You've certainly got an awesome story for the books after this one.

    Has a 4th date been planned? When you guys talked about relationships at dinner did he give any impression about his desires for the future? aka that he wants to eventually be married or anything?

  32. @Anonymous 9:40: I can't tell if you were being serious or sarcastic with that comment. If sarcastic, cool, glad you're in on the joke. If serious... sigh.

    @Pretty Young Thing: No 4th date planned yet, but we've been in contact every day since Friday so I'm fairly confident I'll see him again. And I'm not sure what he ultimately wants out of life/relationships, but it's early. I'm not about to start pressing him for some sort of commitment or grand plan -- I don't even know if that's what I want at this stage of the game!

  33. Re: Steph T, I've thought about commenting since the first post on this guy, but decided to keep my mouth shut. Let's just say the word "PUH-LEAZE" has come into my head multiple times while reading these posts. But that's all I'll say.

    OK I lied. I'll say one more thing. The most negative thing Katie said about me from our date (I'm the "software consultant") was that I told a few strip club stories. He TOOK HER TO A BDSM/SWINGERS CLUB!!

  34. Whoaa...Many Many Comments! Well, this guy knows what he is doing and sounds like a lot of fun. I am going to try to think about THE ENTREPRENURE (I cannot spell that at all) this using my sharp analytical mind and the use of Strategery.

    1. Initial meeting via twitter- if he started following via twitter he most likely knew about the blog and thus a WEALTH of information on KT
    2. KT’s Match profile just happens to be “suggested” – possible yes, probably no. If you know KT through twitter you know the blog, if you know the blog and are so inclined, a match profile is easy to find! (Excellent way to get to the date in a funny coincidental way)
    3. Multiple date locations – classic maneuver, you feel like you have been on multiple dates due to different destinations in a single date.
    4. Soup Can delivery – cute easy brownie pts especially if you are a twitter follower (sounded like a doosey of a cold/flu)
    5. H – Street Destination – any casual reading of the blog will reveal KT’s love of H Street and activities on said dates are a surefire winner. Also a level of secrecy is golden (chicks dig a level of mystery so I am told)
    6. Not reading the blog and not being "inside his head." – I have a hard time believing this. It would take a massive amount of will power not to read it, just a little bit. If he did not read it kudos ‘cause I sure as hell would.
    7. Not txting/twittering – ok I am torn on this one. I have had made mistakes when it came to getting the proper information so I will give him that.
    8. The length of time before communicating – Now I think the time period is ok, it’s been two dates and he may be busy and the time can slip away,
    9. Third Date – secrecy again excellent results! The unknown mystery like an enigma shrouded in mist or a trip to a BDSM Club! WHOAA! Either this is INSANE or ABSOLUTELY BRILLIANT. Now any potential suitor would have to have a pretty good understanding of the individual being courted to pull a stunt like that. Again a cursory reading of the blog would reveal that KT is very open-minded and up for about anything. I mean driving to Philly to party with some dudes she met out earlier (though with good planning ie hotel) is pretty outgoing, though I would say it still is a huge gamble. That kinda activity for a date would not enter in my mind at all and is an excellent way of differentiating one’s self from other potential suitors (50+ dates, you need to differentiate).
    10. BOLD – the blog clearly indicates KT likes BOLD and the BDSM move is fucking BOLD (probably read the gushing entries to confirm an initial level of infatuation)

    Now this is not to piss one one’s oatmeal (delightful idiom) it is how it appears to me. This is not bad at all and is just the way it is. If you are having fun, I would go with it. Is he a player, probably, but he could also just be using the available information. The blog info definitely leads to better dates, much of the guess work is eliminated and discussions can begin over a clear mutual interest, the funny self-deprecating BLOG.

  35. Sure, maybe this guy is a perma-bachelor. And maybe even a little part of him could be trying to come up with the most outrageous date ever in order to go down in DateMeDCBlog history. And all of that probably means he has bigger/stronger walls up than most men when it comes to really letting someone in and building a relationship.

    No. This myth that there are men out there afraid to love and that's why they don't settle down is just that...a myth. It's a lie women tell each other and to encourage the women to pursue the uncatchable guy and live out some fantasy. Yeah, no doubt there are some men out there with all kinds of fears of intimacy. But the main reason why a man doesn't commit is because he doesn't have to. There are no walls or some scared little boy inside. They just don't have to commit to anyone because they have a ton of options or are very happy with their life as is.

  36. I say if you're still comfortable with him then it's cool. Sounds like he was pushing both of your boundaries but not to the point where you couldn't handle it. He seems respectful and fun! On the other hand, if you find him voluntarily tied up in his closet one evening then maybe it's time to move on.

  37. @K-Dawg @The Real Comptroller Atkins Thanks.

    and PS. @K-Dawg. Yeah I remember that! My how the scandals go for an upgrade...

  38. Holy. Crap. You're right: totally wasn't expecting that strange turn of events! But good on you for being so open-minded. I would have lost my stuff -- ain't no way!

    Happy that you're happy. :)

  39. Is anybody else wondering how the next candidates will try to up the ante for memorable/edgy dates?

  40. But the main reason why a man doesn't commit is because he doesn't have to.

    AndThatsWhyYoureSingle, I'm going to respectfully disagree with this statement. I'm a lady, so I've never been inside a guy's head, but I'd like to think it's not all that different. I think guys and gals don't commit because they haven't found a person they want to commit to. Yes, people sometimes manipulate other people for sex, money, control, etc., and it hurts when you're on the receiving end of that.

    That said, perma-bachelor or no, I'm all for KT exploring her options for as long as she feels comfortable doing so. Guard your heart too well and you could miss opportunities.

  41. For better or worse, the man's got balls... ever notice how the line between genius romantic and creepy stalker can get blurred from time to time...

    Just callin it like i see it

    (P.S. K-Dawg gets double bonus points now.... taking someone to a BDSM club is way more over the top than simply talking about strip club exploits... most strip club stories are just funny...)

  42. KT- the main thing is that you are having fun :) I am not sure if he is the "one" for you but seriously...we are young, single and oh yea what makes you happy!

  43. I agree with many on here. I think it was borderline disrespectful for him to take you there on a third date. It's great that it worked out and you ended up having a good time with him, but seriously. It would be one thing if he asked you if you would ever like to go and check it out for shits and giggles, but he just assumed that it was ok for him to take you to a sex club for a date. If you're looking to just play with him, then so be it, but if you're looking for someone to have a relationship that is actually meaningful with, I just don't think he sounds like the right fit. I guess more will be revealed, huh? I mean, if you weren't into dog shows one little bit, would you take a date to one? Probably not. I would just take this thing cautiously, and should it get to the point, make damn sure he jimmies up.

    @Kristen...thanks for voicing what I have seen all along. Non-Student does tend to pounce on others' comments like it's her blog. I have noticed it, too. She's uber-defensive, and that's just not a very attractive trait to have. It's swell that she's her friend, but Katie is a grown-up, and it seems to me she can take care of her blog comments herself. Kudos to you for being honest. What a breath of fresh air.

  44. @Anonymous 12:49: To address criticisms of the Non-Student: Look, she's my friend, and one of the best things about her is that she is FIERCELY loyal. If you felt your friend were being attacked, wouldn't you jump up and stand in between her and the attackers? Wouldn't you want someone to do that for you, and keep those who do do that close to you?

    It's also slightly different with her because she, too, has a blog, and knows what it's like to get anonymous comments. It feels like people are shooting at you, and you can't figure out which direction the bullets are coming from. Anonymous 12:49, nothing you wrote in that comment was particularly hateful -- just critical, and that's OK. So why not sign a name? You write that comment with a name, and we can have a genuine discussion. We can also differentiate how many people are actually here and respond accordingly -- there have been many times where we've responded to "Anonymous" only to have someone say "Oh but that particular 'Anonymous' wasn't 'ME Anonymous'".

    Furthermore, it's different when you know someone in real life. What I blog about is such a small fraction of my time on this earth. The Non-Student is around for all that other time, and it gives her a greater point of reference to know when people are making comments that don't actually have any practical application into my life.

  45. Also @Sarah Catherine: Amen, sister! The entrepreneur is, for the time being at least, funny, interesting, exciting and HOT. (Like, REAL hot!!!) Frankly, I could do a lot worse!!!

  46. @AndThatsWhyYoureSingle, you commented "But I haven't seen any "hate" around these parts. I've seen some people disagreeing with Katie or not express blind support. That's not "hate."

    I think it is important to point out that the reason you aren't seeing this "hate" is because thankfully there is a moderator deleting it. There are some really mean and nasty people and the sole purpose of their comments is to insult Katie and try to make her feel bad.

    In addition, I know Katie doesn't mind discourse and disagreement with her decisions or her blog posts. However, as she pointed out, her friends IRL know more about her and her life then is blogged about. There is no requirement that we agree with (or keep silent when we disagree) with other people's comments. If you go back and read the Non-Student's comments she expresses her disagreement in polite and respectful terms. She never attacks the person who makes the comments, she just disagrees with the content of those comments.

  47. Katie, I've been a reader for many months. I absolutely love your blog and love living vicariously through your adventures :) I'm a long time follower and I just had to comment on this post.

    To everyone berating Katie about dating this guy, it's been THREE DATES. Calm down. This guy has done nothing wrong, so why would she walk away from a good thing? If she gets emotionally involved, it's HER concern and it will be HER problem if he breaks her heart. OR this guy could be everything she's been looking for. The pastry chef did EVERYTHING right, and then disappeared. So what if this guy is a adventurous? That's what dating is, going through new experiences. You're all acting like they're engaged to be married or something. Read the title of the blog: it's "DATE me D.C."... keyword: date. He may not be Mr. Right, but if you cut down and criticize every guy over every little detail, you're never going to find happiness or love.

    Keep doing what makes you HAPPY Katie :)

  48. @Sara

    I'm not intentionally being contrary, but isn't this why Katie is sharing with us the details of her date, and keeping the comments open -- for comments?

    Katie - Warning bells went off as I was reading this post, but then I saw your comments about how The Entrepeneur could just be someone temporary (and hot!) with whom to enjoy some time, and that you were good with that. My own initial reaction to your post was protective in nature, which may explain why some of your commenters are jumping on the "Girl, don't do it!" bandwagon. They obviously care about you, online and IRL.

  49. FYI your post is making the rounds on

    For the record I really enjoyed your post and I'm glad to have an outsiders perspective that supports what many of us in the community have always known - it's an often sad affair

    however I must point out you went to a BDSM club on a swingers night. I'm sure if you had gone on a Saturday your experience would have been very different and I believe much better.

    oh and btw the hot players are here:

  50. @Domina Vontana: Thanks for the comment! I think you point out something very key -- the swingers' night vs. the regular nights, which just goes to show that I had ZERO idea what I was getting into (and didn't even realize what it was even after the fact).

    And thanks for the other link -- now I'm curious to go check that out and see how it compares.

  51. And for the record, I really do support having sex in any way you choose. If you're comfortable, happy and enjoying yourself, far be it for me to stand in your way. However, this particular way of having sex just wasn't my thing.

  52. You clearly went there on a swinger's night and not a BDSM night. Trust me, the clientele is completely different.

    Oh, and because it's next to a gay club means it's in a shady area???? You know that it is also right next door to Homeland Security? Yup, that Federal Building next to the gay club houses them.

    And for the record, taking you to a bdsm or swinger's club on a third date? THAT'S shady, and not cool by any means.

  53. Anonymous 9:09 a.m. -- Don't read into my words something that isn't there. I used the modifier "gay" because that's what it is -- a gay strip club. Had it just been a plain ol' naked ladies strip club, I'd still have said the area was mad shady. Because IT SO IS.

  54. Oooohh gurrllll! Just be careful. If it were me, I would have left him at the restaurant. But it made a good blog post, right?! You're obviously a smart girl, so whatever happens (i.e. if it gets really weird or unsafe) I'm sure you'll do the right thing for yourself. I appreciate your openness to new experiences though.

  55. As someone who goes to the Crucible a lot, probably on the fat and old side of her perspective. I'm glad she went on a night I wasn't there. I'd rather have fat old really open minded people rather then narrow minded hot people just a personal preference, I'm sure i'm in the minority.

  56. Sounds like quite a night - lol! I'm glad that you came out of it and still like the entrepreneur. I'm also happy that he wasn't a creep about it.

    I would say that certain clubs have different standards in terms of attractiveness. Allegedly ;). I would also say that you rank far higher than average in terms of attractiveness.

  57. KT,

    I really am excited about your happiness about this guy...and if you knew me better, more than the couple of times we've hung out(yes I'm posting anonymously for this one), I would say KUDOS for having such an open mind!

    Until I read all of the other comments....and they do have a point. Perhaps my open-mindedness about intimacy and sex has jaded my initial reactions to your post. Initially, I was delighted. However, that excitement turned to red flags. Yes, your fellow commenters are right. Be careful and I agree with QuickSilver; TE really IS gauging your reaction and your true open-mindedness. After all, how did he even 'think' to do this if it wasn't already on his mind. He didn't pull it outta his ass.

    There are a few reasons why The Entrepreneur would have taken you to a BDSM club on a swingers night:

    He has fantasized about going to one
    He is completely open to the swinging scene
    He was going for the shock factor for the blog

    Of course, he could have been just as curious and open-minded as you were and wanted to experience the first sights with you. But even here, a red flag goes up... what would have happened if there were more beautiful women like you? If he is a perma bachelor, as you so eloquently put it, then would he have acted? Would he have encouraged you? Furthermore, I agree with many fans.... it's a little early in the relationship to take a woman (you're a date at this point) to something like this, without having initial discussions nor bedroom acts for him to determine whether or not it would be something you're open to seeing (let alone experiencing). Just what WERE his intentions, and what did he hope to gain from this?

    I know I'm a little late in responding; I have been thinking about it. I haven't read your recent posts. My recommendation would be to stay open-minded about where the relationship should go, and in the meantime, have fun while you're at it!

  58. If you know me, why oh why are you posting anonymously? Send me an e-mail, please.


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